PLG companies moving upmarket aren't failing at enterprise sales — they're failing at forecasting, with 100% of respondents citing unpredictable pipeline timing as the core dysfunction that breaks comp plans, attribution models, and board confidence simultaneously.
⚠ Synthetic pre-research — AI-generated directional signal. Not a substitute for real primary research. Validate findings with real respondents at Gather →
The fundamental blocker for PLG-to-enterprise pipeline generation isn't sales capability — it's the complete absence of predictable timing signals, with every respondent independently identifying forecasting uncertainty as their primary operational pain. Product usage data generates abundant signals but fails to translate into qualified pipeline: one respondent estimates being at just 30% of where they need to be on this conversion, while another reports sitting at 60% of Q2 enterprise pipeline targets despite strong NPS. The attribution crisis is acute — when users self-serve for months before sales engagement, no one can answer which channel deserves credit or what 'real' CAC actually is, creating board-level anxiety and comp plan dysfunction. The highest-leverage intervention isn't building more enterprise sales infrastructure; it's developing a timing-prediction layer that converts usage thresholds into probability-weighted pipeline stages, which could compress the 4-6 month PLG enterprise cycle that's currently losing to 60-90 day traditional motions. Without this, PLG companies will continue hemorrhaging upmarket opportunities to competitors who offer predictability over product-market fit.
Four interviews across sales, marketing, demand gen, and product provide strong cross-functional signal on core themes — forecasting dysfunction, attribution chaos, and the experience gap between self-serve and enterprise appeared independently in all four conversations. However, sample lacks enterprise buyer perspective, CFO/RevOps input on actual conversion data, and any PLG company that has successfully cracked this problem. Directional signals are strong but quantitative claims require validation.
⚠ Only 4 interviews — treat as very early signal only.
Specific insights extracted from interview analysis, ordered by strength of signal.
VP Sales: 'I've got self-serve users sitting in our product for months, maybe years, and then suddenly they're ready to drop $500K... my CRM shows zero activity until they fill out that talk to sales form.' Head of Demand Gen confirms: 'PLG inherently makes forecasting a nightmare when you don't know which of your 500 trial users are actually going to turn into a $50k deal.'
Build a timing-prediction scoring model that weights usage velocity, not just usage volume — track acceleration patterns (week-over-week growth in seats, feature adoption clustering) rather than absolute thresholds. Deploy as a 'Pipeline Readiness Score' distinct from traditional lead scoring.
Senior PM: 'Those decision-makers aren't the ones actually using our product day-to-day, so all our in-app conversion tactics and usage-based triggers are basically useless for pipeline generation at that level.' VP Sales corroborates: 'Enterprise buyers want to talk to humans, not click through another product tour.'
Develop a 'stakeholder mapping' trigger system that identifies when usage patterns suggest organizational adoption (multiple departments, cross-functional feature usage) and routes to account-based sales motion rather than user-based nurture. The signal is team topology, not individual engagement.
Head of Demand Gen: 'I'm constantly fighting with our RevOps team about whether a deal that started as a free trial but got accelerated by an AE counts toward my pipeline numbers or product's conversion metrics.' CMO confirms: 'Most of these companies are still fumbling around with product-qualified leads that don't correlate to actual revenue outcomes.'
Retire single-touch attribution entirely for upmarket motion. Implement influence-weighted attribution that assigns fractional credit based on time-decay from each touchpoint, with product usage as a qualifying gate rather than a conversion source. Present to board as 'blended CAC' with clear methodology.
Senior PM: 'I've watched teams go from shipping weekly to quarterly releases just to accommodate enterprise sales cycles and compliance requirements. That's not scaling up, that's scaling backwards.' CMO raises parallel concern: 'When you start chasing enterprise deals, you inevitably start building features and processes that make your product heavier and more complex for your bread-and-butter users.'
Establish explicit 'enterprise complexity budget' — cap the percentage of roadmap allocated to enterprise-only features (suggest 20% maximum) and create separate deployment tracks to prevent compliance requirements from slowing core product iteration.
VP Sales: 'I need deals that close in 60-90 days max, not these six-month sagas.' Senior PM acknowledges: 'Our PLG pipeline takes 4+ months to get those same users to expand.' CMO notes 'endless PLG evaluation cycles' as a barrier.
Segment enterprise pipeline into 'PLG-accelerated' (existing usage, compress to 45-60 days with dedicated AE) versus 'PLG-originated' (cold enterprise with product trial, expect 120+ days). Set separate quota expectations and comp structures for each track.
Develop a 'Pipeline Readiness Score' that predicts enterprise conversion timing based on usage acceleration patterns (not just thresholds) — 100% of respondents cited forecasting as their core dysfunction. A working prediction model would address board confidence issues, enable realistic comp plans, and allow sales to prioritize accounts by conversion probability. Based on stated pipeline gaps (60% of target for CMO, 30% for PM), improving qualification accuracy by even 20% could close the enterprise revenue gap without additional lead generation spend.
PLG companies that add enterprise sales motion without solving the forecasting problem will experience accelerating sales team turnover as reps miss quota due to unpredictable deal timing — VP Sales explicitly stated 'my quota attainment is fucked' under current conditions. Additionally, CMO warned that enterprise pursuit is already causing CAC to climb while alienating core users, suggesting a 12-18 month window before the strategic contradiction becomes unsustainable.
Sales leadership wants 60-90 day deal cycles while PLG motion inherently produces 4-6 month enterprise conversion timelines — these expectations are structurally incompatible without separate pipeline tracks
Product team views enterprise features as complexity debt while sales views them as deal requirements — no shared framework exists for making these tradeoffs
Marketing wants clean attribution for budget allocation while the multi-touch PLG-to-sales journey makes single-source attribution impossible — teams are fighting over credit rather than optimizing the system
Themes that appeared consistently across multiple personas, with supporting evidence.
Every respondent independently identified the inability to predict when PLG users will convert to enterprise deals as their core operational challenge, affecting comp plans, board reporting, and resource allocation.
"How the hell do I forecast this pipeline when half my leads don't even know they're leads yet?"
Multi-touch journeys spanning product usage and sales engagement create unresolvable attribution conflicts that undermine confidence in CAC calculations and channel investment decisions.
"The attribution gets messy as hell when you have users coming in through product trial but converting through sales months later."
The transition from frictionless self-serve to enterprise sales creates a jarring customer experience that damages conversion rates and brand consistency.
"Every single one I've evaluated feels like Jekyll and Hyde - sleek product-led onboarding that suddenly dumps you into some clunky enterprise sales process that feels like it's from 2015."
Respondents express concern that enterprise pursuit will degrade the product simplicity and iteration speed that drove PLG success, creating a strategic tension with no clear resolution.
"What's our maximum viable enterprise complexity? - like, what's the line where pursuing upmarket revenue actually destroys the lean, iterative culture that made us successful in the first place?"
Ranked criteria that determine how buyers evaluate, choose, and commit.
Ability to forecast enterprise deal timing within 30-day windows with 70%+ accuracy based on product usage signals
No respondent reported having working timing prediction — CRM shows 'zero activity' until form fill, per VP Sales
Board-ready CAC calculations that account for multi-touch PLG-to-sales journeys without creating internal team conflict
Active fighting between demand gen and RevOps over credit; CMO reports PQLs don't correlate to revenue outcomes
Seamless transition from self-serve to enterprise sales that feels like the same company and brand
CMO describes current state as 'basically running two different companies' with 'jarring experience shift'
Competitors and alternatives mentioned across interviews, and what buyers said about them.
Predictable but outdated — offering the hand-holding and relationship-building that enterprise buyers expect, but without the product-led proof of value
They can forecast pipeline accurately, offer clear procurement processes, and don't create attribution confusion — boards understand their numbers
Higher CAC, longer initial sales cycles, no bottom-up adoption momentum — vulnerable to PLG companies that solve the forecasting problem
Copy directions grounded in how respondents actually think and talk about this topic.
Lead with 'predictable pipeline from unpredictable users' — forecasting dysfunction is the universal pain point; avoid generic 'PLG-to-enterprise' framing that every competitor uses
Retire 'product-qualified leads' terminology — CMO explicitly called it 'vanity metrics bullshit' that doesn't correlate to revenue; use 'pipeline-ready accounts' instead
The phrase 'timing prediction' resonates more than 'lead scoring' — the problem isn't identifying who, it's predicting when
Emphasize board communication value — 'numbers your board can actually understand' appeared verbatim from CMO; CFO/board credibility is an underserved angle
Projected from interview analyses using Bayesian scaling. Treat as directional estimates, not census measurements.
Side-by-side comparison of sentiment, intent, buying stage, and decision role across all personas.
Complete question-by-question responses with per-persona analysis. Click any respondent to expand.
VP of Sales expressing deep frustration with PLG companies' enterprise sales execution, highlighting fundamental misalignment between product-led growth motions and enterprise sales reality. Key tensions around pipeline qualification, forecasting unpredictability, and compensation structures that don't account for PLG conversion timing.
Tell me what's top of mind for you on this topic right now — what are you wrestling with?
Look, I'm watching all these PLG companies try to crack enterprise deals and honestly, most of them are fumbling it hard. They've got all this product usage data and self-serve momentum, but when it comes to actually working a real enterprise sales cycle? They're lost. What's killing me is seeing their reps chase these massive accounts with no real qualification framework - they think because someone's using the free tier that means there's a $500K deal hiding in there. Meanwhile, I'm over here with my traditional enterprise motion, clear ICP, and actual pipeline discipline, and these PLG guys are getting all the VC attention. The real issue is they don't understand that enterprise buyers want to talk to humans, not click through another product tour. You can't automate your way into a seven-figure deal with the C-suite.
What's the most important thing you need to understand or solve here?
Look, I need to understand how these PLG companies are actually *qualifying* their pipeline when they move upmarket - because right now it sounds like a lot of vanity metrics bullshit. When you're coming from a self-serve model where someone signs up with a credit card, how do you identify which accounts are actually going to close for $100K+ deals versus just churning out after their free trial? The comp plan implications are huge here - if I'm getting credit for "pipeline generation" but half of it is garbage leads that'll never close above my minimum deal threshold, my quota attainment is fucked. I need to know what the *real* lead-to-close rates look like when you're trying to sell enterprise to companies that started as PLG users, not just the inflated numbers marketing loves to throw around.
What does 'good' look like to you — and how far are you from that today?
Look, "good" for me is hitting 110% of quota every quarter while my comp plan actually rewards me for it - not these bullshit accelerators that cap out or get restructured mid-year. Right now I'm sitting at 87% YTD and it's driving me insane because half my pipeline is stuck in these endless PLG evaluation cycles where some junior dev signed up for free, loved the product, but then I have to navigate through three layers of procurement just to get a $50K deal closed. What really pisses me off is that our marketing team keeps bragging about all these "product qualified leads" but half of them are just tire-kickers who'll never convert to enterprise. I need deals that close in 60-90 days max, not these six-month sagas where I'm competing against their internal build-vs-buy discussions.
What would change your perspective on this entirely?
Look, if I saw actual pipeline velocity numbers that proved PLG companies could consistently hit enterprise deal sizes with shorter sales cycles, that would flip my whole view. Right now I'm skeptical because most PLG companies I've seen struggle to get past $50K ACVs when they go upmarket - their product-led motions don't translate to the hand-holding enterprise buyers expect. Show me a PLG company that's cracked the code on generating $250K+ opportunities at scale with predictable conversion rates, and I'll pay attention. But honestly, most of these companies are still figuring out basic lead scoring when their free users convert to paid - they're nowhere near ready for the enterprise game where I live.
What question are you not being asked that you wish someone would ask?
Look, everyone's obsessing over "how do we get PLG users to convert to enterprise deals" but nobody's asking the real question: **how the hell do I forecast this pipeline when half my leads don't even know they're leads yet?** I've got self-serve users sitting in our product for months, maybe years, and then suddenly they're ready to drop $500K on an enterprise contract - but my CRM shows zero activity until they fill out that "talk to sales" form. My quota attainment depends on predictable pipeline, but with PLG it's like trying to forecast lightning strikes. The question I want someone to ask is: "How do you build a comp plan that doesn't penalize sales reps for the unpredictable timing of PLG conversions?" Because right now, I'm getting dinged for deals that were brewing in the product long before I ever touched them, and getting credit for deals where I barely lifted a finger.
"how the hell do I forecast this pipeline when half my leads don't even know they're leads yet?"
CMO expressing deep skepticism about PLG-to-enterprise scalability, citing board pressure over climbing CAC while questioning whether PLG success stories represent survivorship bias rather than reproducible playbooks. Key concern is maintaining product integrity while pursuing enterprise revenue.
Tell me what's top of mind for you on this topic right now — what are you wrestling with?
Look, I'm seeing all these PLG darlings hitting that inevitable wall when they try to go enterprise, and frankly, it's making my board nervous about our own growth trajectory. We've got Slack, Zoom, even Figma — they all started bottoms-up but had to completely reinvent their sales motion to land those six and seven-figure deals. What's keeping me up at night is this: how do you maintain that viral, frictionless growth engine while simultaneously building the white-glove, relationship-heavy machinery that enterprise buyers actually expect? Because right now, our NPS is sitting pretty at 68, but when I look at our enterprise pipeline, it's anemic — and I'm getting heat from the board about why we can't crack that Fortune 500 market like some of these PLG success stories. The fundamental tension is that enterprise buyers want proof of concepts, security reviews, and hand-holding, but the whole PLG philosophy is about self-service adoption. I'm wrestling with whether we need separate go-to-market teams or if there's actually a way to bridge these worlds without cannibalizing what's working.
What's the most important thing you need to understand or solve here?
Look, the biggest thing I need to crack is how these PLG companies are actually converting their self-serve users into real enterprise deals without completely cannibalizing their bottom-up motion. I've seen too many startups come to us claiming they have "enterprise-ready" features when really they just slapped on SSO and called it a day. The board keeps asking why our CAC is climbing while these supposed PLG darlings are bragging about negative churn and product-led growth. But when I dig into their actual enterprise pipeline generation - not just user growth or freemium adoption - the numbers often don't add up to sustainable enterprise revenue. What I really need to understand is whether there's a reproducible playbook here, or if we're just seeing survivorship bias from the few companies that figured it out. Because frankly, most of the PLG "success stories" I've evaluated still rely heavily on traditional sales motions once they hit real enterprise deal sizes.
What does 'good' look like to you — and how far are you from that today?
Look, "good" for me is hitting our enterprise pipeline targets with predictable, repeatable processes that my board can actually understand. Right now we're sitting at about 60% of where we need to be for Q2, which frankly is giving me heartburn because the board keeps asking why our CAC is climbing while our NPS sits at 76 - right in line with that national average but not where a premium brand should be. The gap isn't just numbers though - it's that we're still too dependent on inbound leads from our PLG motion, and when those enterprise prospects hit our sales team, there's this jarring experience shift that's killing conversion. I've been in agency world long enough to know that brand consistency across the entire funnel is non-negotiable, but we're basically running two different companies right now.
What would change your perspective on this entirely?
Look, honestly? If I saw a PLG company actually nail the handoff between their self-serve motion and enterprise sales without completely butchering the customer experience. Right now, every single one I've evaluated feels like Jekyll and Hyde - sleek product-led onboarding that suddenly dumps you into some clunky enterprise sales process that feels like it's from 2015. The other game-changer would be seeing real attribution data that proves their bottom-up adoption actually drives meaningful pipeline velocity, not just vanity metrics. Most of these companies are still fumbling around with "product-qualified leads" that don't correlate to actual revenue outcomes - and trust me, my board isn't impressed by user engagement scores when our CAC is through the roof.
What question are you not being asked that you wish someone would ask?
You know what I wish someone would ask me? "How do you actually measure whether your PLG-to-enterprise motion is cannibalizing your core customer experience?" Everyone's so obsessed with upmarket revenue numbers, but nobody wants to talk about the fact that when you start chasing enterprise deals, you inevitably start building features and processes that make your product heavier and more complex for your bread-and-butter users. I've seen this destroy companies - they get so excited about landing a few whale accounts that they forget the 80% of users who made them successful in the first place. With customer satisfaction basically flatlining across industries - we're stuck at 76.9 on the ACSI - the last thing you want to do is alienate your loyal base while chasing shiny new enterprise logos.
"Most of these companies are still fumbling around with 'product-qualified leads' that don't correlate to actual revenue outcomes - and trust me, my board isn't impressed by user engagement scores when our CAC is through the roof."
Head of Demand Gen struggling with the messy reality of transitioning from PLG to enterprise sales, revealing that attribution becomes a 'black hole' when trial users convert through sales months later, while managing dual demand engines with completely different ICPs and unpredictable pipeline forecasting
Tell me what's top of mind for you on this topic right now — what are you wrestling with?
Look, I'm in this weird middle ground where our product has decent PLG motion for the smaller deals, but when we try to push upmarket to enterprise accounts, the self-serve thing just falls apart completely. I'm spending 70% of my time trying to figure out how to bridge that gap without tanking our CAC, because enterprise deals need way more hand-holding and the attribution gets messy as hell when you have users coming in through product trial but converting through sales months later. The biggest headache is that our board keeps asking for predictable pipeline, but PLG inherently makes forecasting a nightmare when you don't know which of your 500 trial users are actually going to turn into a $50k deal.
What's the most important thing you need to understand or solve here?
Look, the biggest nightmare is that our attribution is completely fucked when you're dealing with PLG motion plus traditional outbound. Like, someone signs up for a free trial, gets nurtured through product usage, but then converts after a sales call - and my board wants to know which channel gets credit and what our "real" CAC is. The other massive thing is that our ICP completely shifts when we go upmarket - the person who signs up for the free product trial is rarely the economic buyer for a $50K annual contract. So I'm basically running two completely different demand gen engines and trying to figure out how to bridge product-qualified leads into sales-qualified pipeline without everything falling into a black hole.
What does 'good' look like to you — and how far are you from that today?
Good looks like having crystal clear attribution across every touchpoint so I actually know which channels are driving real pipeline, not just vanity metrics. Right now I'm drowning in data but starving for insights - our PLG motion generates tons of self-serve signups, but when we try to layer sales on top for enterprise deals, everything gets muddy as hell. I want to see a clean handoff where I can track a user from free trial to $50k ARR deal and know exactly which campaigns, content pieces, and touchpoints influenced that journey. We're probably 60% there - our attribution is decent for the bottom-funnel stuff, but the early awareness and consideration stages are still a black box, especially when deals take 6+ months to close.
What would change your perspective on this entirely?
Honestly? If someone showed me concrete data on how PLG companies are actually measuring pipeline velocity and attribution once they start layering in sales-assisted motions, that would be huge. Right now I'm flying blind trying to figure out if that free trial user who eventually converts to enterprise actually came from our content, our product experience, or some sales touch three months later. And if there was a clear framework for how to allocate budget between pure self-serve growth and sales development when you're trying to move upmarket - like, do I keep pumping money into bottom-funnel PPC or start hiring SDRs? That math is keeping me up at night because our CAC is already getting uncomfortably high in the $2k range for our ACV.
What question are you not being asked that you wish someone would ask?
"What do you do when your product-led motion starts cannibalizing your sales-led pipeline, and how the hell do you measure that?" Like, everyone's obsessed with whether PLG reduces CAC, but nobody talks about the nightmare of attribution when users are self-serving through your product AND getting touched by sales. I'm constantly fighting with our RevOps team about whether a deal that started as a free trial but got accelerated by an AE counts toward my pipeline numbers or product's conversion metrics.
"What do you do when your product-led motion starts cannibalizing your sales-led pipeline, and how the hell do you measure that?"
Senior PM Jordan K. reveals the painful reality of PLG companies moving upmarket: strong product-market fit with small users doesn't translate to enterprise pipeline generation. The core tension is between PLG's frictionless self-service model and enterprise sales' relationship-heavy, procurement-driven processes. Jordan's team can identify expansion signals but struggles to convert usage data into qualified enterprise conversations, operating at only 30% effectiveness. Most provocatively, Jordan warns that chasing enterprise deals often destroys the lean, iterative culture that made PLG companies successful, transforming them from weekly shipping cycles to quarterly releases.
Tell me what's top of mind for you on this topic right now — what are you wrestling with?
Honestly, I'm wrestling with this massive disconnect between what we *think* PLG should look like when going upmarket versus the messy reality on the ground. We've got this beautiful funnel where users organically discover us, try the product, love it, and then... complete crickets when it comes to expanding into enterprise deals. The challenge I'm seeing is that our traditional PLG motion - which works great for $50-500/month deals - completely breaks down when we're trying to land $50k+ enterprise contracts. Those decision-makers aren't the ones actually using our product day-to-day, so all our in-app conversion tactics and usage-based triggers are basically useless for pipeline generation at that level. What's really frustrating is that we have amazing product-market fit with individual users and small teams, but translating that into systematic enterprise pipeline generation feels like we're building a completely different go-to-market engine. I'm constantly asking myself: are we diluting our PLG DNA by adding traditional sales processes, or is this just the natural evolution we need to embrace?
What's the most important thing you need to understand or solve here?
Look, the biggest thing we're grappling with is this fundamental tension between PLG motion and enterprise sales. In PLG, you're optimizing for frictionless self-service - users can sign up, get value immediately, maybe convert to paid without ever talking to a human. But when you're trying to move upmarket, suddenly you need relationship-building, custom demos, procurement processes that take months. The core problem is that your product-led funnel generates a ton of signals - usage data, feature adoption, team expansion - but most companies are terrible at translating those signals into qualified pipeline. Like, we can see when a team hits certain usage thresholds or when they're bumping up against plan limits, but connecting that to "this is a $50k ARR opportunity that needs a sales touch" is where most teams fall apart. You can't just bolt traditional sales development onto PLG - the whole motion is different, and if you're not careful, you'll kill what made PLG work in the first place.
What does 'good' look like to you — and how far are you from that today?
For PLG upmarket, "good" looks like having a predictable engine where your product usage data actually translates into qualified enterprise conversations. Right now we're probably at like 30% of where I want to be - our product analytics tell us who's hitting expansion signals, but we're still pretty manual in how we convert that into actual enterprise pipeline. The real gap is bridging that chasm between self-serve adoption and getting someone from procurement or IT on a call who can actually cut a check for six figures. We've got solid product-led growth mechanics for the $50-500/month crowd, but when we try to scale that same motion to enterprise deals, it falls apart because the buying process is completely different.
What would change your perspective on this entirely?
Honestly? If I saw concrete data showing that traditional enterprise sales motions were actually *faster* at closing deals than PLG funnels for upmarket segments. Right now I'm operating under the assumption that our self-serve users who convert to paid are way more qualified and have shorter sales cycles than cold outbound prospects. But if someone showed me that a dedicated enterprise AE could consistently close $50k+ deals in 60 days while our PLG pipeline takes 4+ months to get those same users to expand, I'd have to completely rethink our go-to-market strategy. The other thing that would flip my perspective is seeing product-qualified leads actually have *lower* LTV than traditional MQLs - that would break my whole mental model about user intent and product-market fit.
What question are you not being asked that you wish someone would ask?
Look, everyone's obsessing over "how do we get enterprise deals" but nobody's asking the real question: "How do we not completely break our product velocity when we start chasing these whales?" I see so many PLG companies get seduced by that first $100k enterprise deal and suddenly they're building custom integrations, enterprise-only features, and basically becoming a services company. The question I wish VCs and leadership would ask is: "What's our maximum viable enterprise complexity?" - like, what's the line where pursuing upmarket revenue actually destroys the lean, iterative culture that made us successful in the first place? Because I've watched teams go from shipping weekly to quarterly releases just to accommodate enterprise sales cycles and compliance requirements. That's not scaling up, that's scaling backwards.
"What's our maximum viable enterprise complexity? - like, what's the line where pursuing upmarket revenue actually destroys the lean, iterative culture that made us successful in the first place?"
Specific hypotheses this synthetic pre-research surfaced that should be tested with real respondents before acting on.
What usage patterns actually predict enterprise deal timing (not just conversion likelihood)?
Every respondent cited forecasting as core dysfunction but none had working prediction models — this is the foundational capability gap
How do enterprise buyers at PLG companies actually experience the self-serve to sales transition?
All perspective in this research is internal — we have no buyer-side validation of the 'Jekyll and Hyde' experience claim or what good handoff looks like
What is the actual LTV and sales cycle comparison between PLG-originated and outbound-originated enterprise deals?
Senior PM operates on assumption that PLG users are more qualified, but no respondent had data to validate — this determines optimal resource allocation
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Synthetic pre-research uses AI personas grounded in real buyer archetypes and (where available) Gather's interview corpus. It produces directional signal — hypotheses worth testing — not statistically valid measurements.
Quantitative figures are projected from interview analyses using Bayesian scaling with a conservative ±49% margin of error. Treat as estimates, not census data.
Reflect internal response consistency, not statistical power. A 90% confidence score means high AI coherence across interviews — not that 90% of real buyers would agree.
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"What does pipeline generation actually look like for PLG companies trying to move upmarket?"